What is the Harvard of the South?

Harvard is a famous school, perhaps the most famous in the world. As always happens with fame, this sparks comparisons, and attempts to find a local version. It’s no surprise that Bollywood in India is a reference to Hollywood, and so too do students often wonder how schools nearer to them compare to Harvard.

This question is sometimes encouraged by colleges themselves, many of whom want to be thought of as being akin to their Ivy League counterparts. One interesting example of this is the Southern Ivies. In this article we’ll explain what these schools are, what they might have been, and how they compare to the better known Ivy League, and how they stack up to Harvard in particular. Let’s get started!

What are the Southern Ivies?

The Ivy League, as we have discussed before, was founded as an athletic conference. The Northeastern schools which began it were longtime rivals for the most part, and preferred to compete with each other, rather than the larger schools which had already begun sacrificing academic standards for the sake of their athletic programs in some cases. 

They still cared about sports, to be sure. None of them wanted to follow the path of UChicago and banish football from their campuses entirely. They just wanted to compete against schools with a similar approach to academic merit. Thus the Ivy League was born. 

In the South, this problem was being observed as well, notably by Vanderbilt. They first attempted to join the Ivy League conference, but were rebuffed. This led to a new plan, to form a league of their own in the South. One modeled after the Ivy League; an athletic league for schools with a focus on academics, but who still wanted to compete seriously in DI football.

This league was given the provisional name the Magnolia League, which contrasted their flowered campuses with their ivy-clad brethren to the North. The schools originally invited to join this league were:

• Duke
• Emory
• Rice
• Tulane
• Southern Methodist University
• Vanderbilt

This was seriously entertained for a spell, but ended up being abandoned for a variety of reasons, mainly the amount of money the schools were able to receive from the athletic conferences they were already in. That said, the designation of these particular schools as the Southern answer to the Northeastern Ivy league stuck, and they are often compared with the Ivy League.

What the Magnolia League Might Have Been

This section is going to be speculation, but helps with the direct comparison between these schools and their counterparts in the Ivy League. You see, when the Ivy League was first founded, they were not inherently associated with academic excellence. It was a mix of circumstances that propelled them to the heights that they are at today, and their association in a league helped, especially the less famous schools. 

Harvard and Yale were always going to have academic weight, but many of the other schools were regional; educating the New England elite who were educated in various prep and boarding schools in the area. The rise of the Ivy League as a concept helped propel these schools to the next level, and in turn win them the prestige and monetary benefits that come with renown. 

A Magnolia League set up as a Southern counterpart would have likely benefited from the same phenomenon. The schools in it are generally well regarded academically, but an association with each other, and with the Ivy League, would have raised their standings as a whole. 

This influx in prestige is then often repaid in increased student interest, an increase in alumni and other donations, and an increase in the ease of applying for governmental grants. While these schools are in good positions today, it would be interesting to see how things would stand had things gone differently.

Comparing the Ivy League to the Southern Ivies

We’re going to start by examining general similarities and differences between these schools, then do a few head-to-head comparisons. Thus we will be able to see if these schools deserve to be compared with the Ivy League as a class, and how some notable members measure up individually.

The first thing to note is that all of these schools are private, and like the Ivy League, most are quite small and quite old by American standards. There are exceptions, but even here there is a parallel; SMU is different from most of the other schools in the Southern Ivies in nearly the same ways Cornell is different from the rest of its cohort. They are larger, and have the most subsidiary colleges within them. 

These schools are quite similar in cost. The Ivy League has more competitive acceptance rates on average, but these are close, and many are in similar ballparks. For the most part, the schools focus on a liberal arts style curriculum, though some have separate colleges for engineering or business.

On the whole, these schools are remarkably similar to the Ivy League, both in terms of how they are organized, their academic caliber, and in how they approach educating students. We will now look more closely at how they compare on a one-to-one basis. We won’t be able to compare all of these schools of course, but will take a sampling, to see what trends emerge. 

Comparing Duke Vs Harvard

Duke is already considered one of the Ivy+ schools; it is often associated with the Ivy League, and some students are surprised to discover it is not actually part of it. It has the same long history and strong academic tradition as the other Ivies, so this confusion is perhaps warranted. 

Just looking at the numbers, Duke and Harvard are within a very small range on most metrics. Harvard tends to be ranked higher, but as we’ve discussed before, rankings are often inherently flawed, and are not indicative of the actual strength of the universities. 

Duke and Harvard do have cultural differences, due to their diverging histories and traditions. These are both old schools by American standards, and have had long paths to build the traditions they embrace today. That said, these differences have been flattening in recent years. The proliferation of the internet and mass media is undoing many of the regional differences between New England and the South, the differences that lay beneath many of the cultural differences between Duke and Harvard. 

Both Duke and Harvard tend to attract student bodies from well-off backgrounds. Harvard does offer a more generous financial aid package as well; Duke has a smaller endowment, and offers less need-based aid than many of its peers, even among the other Southern Ivies. 

Comparing Yale vs Vanderbilt

Just as Harvard and Yale have long been compared, so too have Duke and Vanderbilt. The relationship is not an exact parallel; Duke and Vanderbilt do not have the same longstanding rivalry, both academic and athletic, that Yale and Harvard do, but they are often thought of in the same way. A student who is interested in Harvard will almost always apply to Yale, and one interested in Duke will almost always apply to Vanderbilt. 

Yale and Vanderbilt are remarkably similar when compared by the numbers; not exactly the same, but very close in a lot of ways. They are of similar sizes, similar costs, with a similar degree of difficulty in getting accepted. Not exactly the same of course, but near. Yale is ranked more highly, but Vanderbilt is hardly seen as a bad school. 

Vanderbilt does separate itself into multiple undergraduate colleges, while Yale only has the one. While Vanderbilt does promote a liberal arts core at all of its colleges, they do have different core curricula, and allow students to specialize more. Conversely, Yale’s model allows students to take courses in different disciplines more easily, and to change their major with less hassle. 

There is a cultural difference between the schools, based on location and tradition. Both have their own sense of and taste of elitism, and both consider themselves a preeminent institution. This does not make one better, but they do attract different students, who are interested in different climes. 

Comparing Rice vs Princeton

Princeton is sometimes overlooked in comparison to Yale and Harvard, and so too is Rice sometimes forgotten when discussing the best schools in the South, or seen as an afterthought when compared to Duke and Vanderbilt. Both schools are excellent academic institutions, just slightly less famous than their counterparts. 

As has been the trend for these comparisons, these two schools are remarkably similar when compared on the numbers alone. They are both small elite schools, quite expensive, but both with incredibly generous need-based aid programs. Both follow a liberal arts core, though Princeton separates out liberal arts and engineering students. 

Rice is in a more urban area, though this is not reflected in its campus. Princeton is known for being somewhat deflationary in its grading policies, or at least not engaging in nearly as much grade inflation as many of its peers. Rice is not exceptionally inflationary in its grading policies, but is in line with its peers, and therefore engages in the practice far more than Princeton does. 

There is a cultural difference between the schools, one built on location and history. Further, graduates from the schools often end up in different locations. The commute from Princeton to Wall Street is short, while students at Rice are more likely to end up with relationships with firms in Texas. This is not inevitable; students from Rice can and do go on to work in top New York firms. But the tilt of geography does impact where students end up working post graduation, and this can be clearly seen when comparing these two schools. 

Final Thoughts

There are excellent schools all over the US, not just in the small corner that plays host to the Ivy League. The Southern Ivies are an example of that idea, and while their sports league did not come to pass, it is interesting to see how these colleges measure up to their Ivy League counterparts today, and wonder on what might have been. 

We hope this article has given you a thorough introduction to these schools, and shown how they measure up. Choosing the right colleges to match your needs is always a challenge, and being able to directly compare different institutions is key to see how they fit your goals. Our college fact sheets contain everything you need to know to fully research and compare top colleges. If you’re looking for more personalized advice, then schedule a free consultation with us today. We have a long experience helping students apply to top colleges, and are always happy to hear from you.